The missile content in the book you linked was quite interesting and helpful, but may not apply well to our missiles with their loft and cruise altitudes and non-PN guidance laws. Also, we cannot see missiles and enemies easily due to screen resolution. Any ideas on how to adapt the techniques from the book to apply better to FG?
Great questions, SNOWY1. I hope that others will chime in because it is an important topic to discuss.
First, I don't know which link you are referring to, as there have been many links posted by different crew members about a ton of different topics. Could you ref in a comment?
Second, my advice is to try hard to think first about "similarities" before thinking about differences. This will get you a lot further, a lot more quickly. For example:
Missile energy: Our missiles have been designed to mimic RW missiles by having multiple stages (where appropriate) and realistic ranges. They have also been modeled to have g-limits similar to their RW counterparts. What this means is that we see no-escape zones (NEZs) similar to the RW. Knowing these NEZs relative to 1) the weapon, 2) the target capability, and 3) the target situation can help you choose when to employ different weapons and how. It can also help you decide how you are going to react to weapons when they are used against you.
Missile seeker limits: Our missiles have been modeled to lose their lock if their seeker limits are exceeded. Knowing how you can quickly exceed that angle (or whether you can, given your distance) can be very helpful.
Missile navigation: We owe a special thanks to our developers, as they have modeled our missiles (where appropriate) to "anticipate" your movements and adjust their course accordingly. While this makes our missiles more realistic when compared to modern RW missiles, it also means that you can employ tactics to "fool" them given the right situation. A good example is fooling a missile into terrain, but this can also mean fooling a missile out of energy, since they have no way to conserve it even if they realized your plan!
There are differences too, but most of those are to the defensive pilots advantage. Namely, our missiles don't adjust for terrain (like an AIM120 would), don't conserve fuel for the final attack phase (like many modern missiles do), don't pick the most advantageous altitude and route in BVR shots, can't be fired off-bore, and warn far in advance of when would be realistic in most cases (due to MP messaging).
I prefer to speak over Mumble. I will give advice and instruction mid-flight, and I will use my voice almost always for that. Typing while flying is not easy.
Also, SNOWY1, the missiles use Proportional Navigation now, and are quite accurate. It is possible to defeat Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) with the Viggen, and the Fire Control Radar in general for that matter. Thus you can notch and defeat an Rb-71 (AIM-7 variant). We could still work on them a bit more, but they are close enough at this point.
doing 8 g turn in canyon hiding from OPFOR callsig: hey pinto can I fly with u roll hard left, punch throttle, new turn callsig: that canyon looks awesome. callsig: hey are u guys fighting? flat spot, doing easier turn at 50 agl callsig: y u no respond pinto? climb a little and start typing as fast as possible crash while typing swear loudly and wake up wife/kids/cats/neighbors/neighbors goldfish pinto: yeah you got mumble? callsig: what's that. where can I download it? how do I connect? die callsig: y u no respond pinto? ...roll in grave
tl;dr: save a life and a pinto, and use mumble.
Edit: should clarify - I don't care if you type into mumble or FG or whatever, I just can't usually, especially in flight intensive situations. I have one of the most easily accessible buttons on my joystick mapped to mumble for that reason.
Also, realtime sensitive strategic info is a big risk over FG chat.
Edit2: Later that day... takeoff from icao, headed to engage OPFOR with clever strategy callsig: yeah this will be fun! climb to 50' agl and get within 85nm of opfor callsig: oh hey I see them! 80nm callsig: im heading 380, speed 1000, and they're dead ahead i hear OPFOR giggling in their seperate mumble channel as they turn dead towards us - 70nm callsig: pinto i c u below me. wut is ur speed? 40nm 30nm Opfor1: aim-120 at callsig Opfor2: aim-120 at pinto callsig: how do I arm missiles? start typing in frustratuon crash Opfor1: aim-120 exploded 0.0 meters from callsig Opfor2: aim-120 exploded 0.0 meters from pinto. callsig: but I was slowing down! cheaters! die callsig: y u no respond pinto? ...roll in grave
I know it uses APN. Does APN involve lofting and cruise altitudes though? I am referring to the graphs in the missile development thread. What property should I look for to log the altitude of the Mirage's AIM-54? I will use the grapher built into Phi.
#12231614 Apr 02, 2016 at 02:25 PM · Edited over 2 years ago
I want to make this clear: this program is more than about just ACM, it also encompasses the real world tactics as well. I made a mock schedule of it on the FlightGear forum some months ago, if you would like to get an idea. Covers ACM to understanding the role of each unit in a section or flight, to communicating with AWACS and your section/flight/ and another section/flight.
If you know something, or have something to share, feel free to do so.
I can't believe I'm about to discuss the weaknesses of my fighter of choice, but here goes.
At low speeds, the Viggen loses energy, fast. It loses in close gunfights, and doesn't carry enough missiles to out-missile our other fighters. At those low speeds, with pitch gearing to acrobatic or off, you can turn like a champ - but you'll bleed 300 KIAS in a heartbeat and have to recover from your inevitable stall. And, to top it off, its vertical and horizontal acceleration leave a bit to be desired.
So, what's the reasons for flying it? It's smooth. And hip.
When fighting, you have to use your head. You have to plan ahead. You have to dump hours into practicing. High altitude, high speed dives are a great counter to the weaknesses of the frame, but what if you are already low? And, at high speeds the elevators lose authority like a mofo, so pull up too late and your dead. And if you over speed, your engine will blow up, and you're dead. I specifically practice these dives because they are really hard to pull off successfully. I have strategies for various altitudes, geographies and positions. It's a chess match for me, and I have to be prepared to fly against the best pilots FlightGear has to offer in planes that are superior.
I fly the Viggen, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
Also the 30mm ADEN pod is beast.
long live the 88th
#12407501 May 25, 2016 at 06:02 AM · Edited over 2 years ago
Thank you for sharing PINTO. Now I will discuss some of what goes on in my head before and after a merge. Before the merge I am looking for these three things at first: 1. The bogey/bandits aspect relative to me. 2. The number of bogey/bandits. Which are immediate threats, and which are not? 3. The bearing, range, altitude, and don't forget closure rate. In real life and in sim, closure rate can easily meet or exceed 1000 knots, or around 20 miles/minute. Duh, you and your enemy are probably going 500 knots+ at each other. Keep 20miles/minute closure as a rule of thumb. Something you should learn to expect, respect and account for in you decision making (pre-merge and BVR).
Next is to understand where I am relative to the bogey/bandit. After that, I must decide the best course of action to gain advantage, or at least survive. It invokes a fight or flight response. If you know you can't win the fight in your present position, peel back. If you need to make an adjustment of your pursuit angle, altitude, do it quickly and cautiously. Dont forget to observe what is going on around you. You can't just do this once, but keep on looping this process. Sometimes you need to peel off and rethink your strategy. Let's hope you aren't already merged when that happens.
On another note, keep your eyes out of the cockpit on merge. Key them eyeballs fixed on the target! Kill as quickly as you can. Waste no opportunities. Fight dirty and make the bandit fight for it. The longer the fight goes on, the less chances you have making it back.
Look up the Boyd's Cycle, you will see what I am talking about. Observe, Observe, Observe always, Plan plan plan, then act act act!
I prefer the F-15, as it is the most successful aircraft of its type and a very intimidating beast indeed.
And before I end this post, I will say this: if the bandit ever gets on your RQ in a guns situation, often a good idea to get seperation from him and turn hard back into him. In short, don't "dance" around. Either force the overshoot or get out of there. Never let the bandit be within range and on your RQ.
When you merge, the way you should approach the situation is like this: "End it" quick, maintain situational awareness (not just of what's going on in the fight, but also outside the realm of the fight), and try to overwhelm and gain a position if superiority as soon as possible. Be dirty (just don't cheat and break OPRF rules.). Respect one another. Make use of every opportunity, and press as hard as you can when they arise. Easier said than done. If you can't do that, I hope you figure it out quick and (hopefully and somehow) escape 😂. Better hope you eject over friendly territory 😂.
The Viggen can't force overshoots, the reverser isn't effective enough.
To put this plainly, because it's been answered like 10 times already, the reverser can be used in flight without consequence, this is realistic and is modeled correctly. You can use it as an airbrake to your hearts content. The only time it shouldn't be used is when you are at a full stop with parking brakes on.
KSUU_TW, awesome mate! Welcome to the group!
Hi folks, please ask FB and swamp to read their private messages here. Thanks!
Hey guys, just wanted to say that I'm happy to be part of the group! I should be at KSUU quite frequently now as tower on the regular FG servers. You might see me in other towers too such as KSFO, KXTA, or KJFK.